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melior

If President Bush does not win this election, it will not be his fault but that of you so-called 'moderate' Republicans. How many times does he have to tell you that you have been insufficiently patriotic and God-fearing before you realize this is WAR, and throw all pretense of civility out the window?

Kerry is not just bad, he is Evil, Liberal and French. And so's his wife. It's his record 20 years ago that matters, not Bush's in this term. Kerry's just a scaremonger, and only wants to talk about bad things not the good things. How can we devote ourselves mindlessly to a man like that? We need hope, not plans.

Stop questioning the civilian deaths, they're all in heaven now, except the Muslims. Deficits and unemployment don't matter when there are scary people putting out tapes right before the elections saying they want to kill us. They might be real, Drudge says so. There never were any explosives in Iraq, it's all forged, no one can prove anything, and anyway it's the Iraqis' fault, or Clinton's, not Bush's.

hopeful?

Zogby calls election for Bush?

wasted potential

Reverend? - I am not suggesting that abortion is a fatal weakness, I just was only stating that being indignant about innocent life being taken in Iraq while supporting the killing of innocent babies is in my view hypocritcal.

However, in Ohio, Western PA and hispanic communities, the pro partial birth abortion stand could prove to be fatal to Senator Kerry.

Anyway - it is obvious that my introduction of this thought has touched a few nerves. I will move on to the more pressing issues like all of these "late breaking" 18 month old stories coming out the week before the election in the main stream press.

Spider - you are 1000% correct in your critism of Bush 41 for not supporting the uprising in Iraq. Had we done so, this would not have been an election year topic and we would be much further along the way to "drain the swamp of terrorism on a global basis" to use Senator Kerry's words.

However, if it was the right policy to remove Saddam then, it was still the right policy to remove him in 2003.

melior

The best way to reduce and ultimately eliminate abortions is to turn back the clock to the days when we didn't talk about sex at all, except to tell our kids it's WRONG. If we take the fun out of sex completely, every child will wait til they are in a loving marriage, even if it's their third or fourth.

I haven't got any recent statistics on it but I bet lesbians and gays have some of the highest abortion rates.

All birth control is immoral and Satan's work. If Jesus had wanted those embryo-Americans to die, he would have made them into one of the millions of miscarriages he lovingly gave to other women.

wasted potential

Jeffraham - I guess that I disagree with your stating they are being liberated at gun point. I am trying to follow this argument, but I think you are saying that they followed after Saddam with their hearts and only agreed to be freed from him at gunpoint?

I have a more optimistic view than that. I think that they wish we would leave sooner, but are glad we removed Saddam. I wish we could leave too, but the Saddam loyalists teamed with the Islamic fascists that have joined them are not going to allow it. They will fight democracy to their dying breath because they do not want their people to have the freedom we do speak openly about what we believe. They want to control it for you in the name of Allah or for the secularists, in their name.

Also - let me say that I had not heard the lesbian conversion by rape thing before. Once again, your use of the English language impresses me.

wasted potential

Melior - obviously, you are being sarcastic, but do you really think that abortion should be used as a form of birth control?

melior

>>Zogby calls election for Bush?

Yes! Zogby's trying to claim he didn't, but Novak says so and he's the one I trust.

http://mediamatters.org/items/200410280006

melior

wasted,

The worst way to avoid an abortion is to not get pregnant by using birth control, because using a condom condemns you to years of hell for everyone of the spermatazoan-Americans that are killed. Pills are equally bad, becuase they make women promiscuous, which is also worse than abortion. And that 'morning after pill' is just pretending that a couple undifferentiated cells are somehow different from a living, breathing human being, which is like saying an oak and an acorn are somehow different.

Phoenician in a time of Romans

Wasted Potential: "Not true. The fact is the Supreme Court is 1-2 votes away from overturning Roe vs. Wade, or at least limiting it as a "right.""

And then we can make a start on contraception and work our way down to mixed dancing and pregnant women being allowed to walk around in public. That'll show those sexually perverse DemoCRAPS.

Jeffraham: "You've managed to wig out on one of the funnier satirists here"

Everybody knows leftists have no sense of humour.

wasted potential

By the way, I am sure it will warm all of your hearts to know that I am going to be one of those Republican poll watchers in Ohio on Tuesday physically intimidating and verbally harrassing the poor and minority voters on Tuesday. Why, I have even committed to buying pithforks and torches from Jeffraham to assist in this.

The required blood oath we all have to take as blind followers of our President did contain this very point. I will have trouble wielding my pitchfork after having my palm sliced, but it is a small price to pay to cheat our way to victory on election day.

Please - the left claiming voter fraud is just outrageous! When the NAACP provides crack cocaine to get someone to register Mary Poppins to vote here in Ohio, it is obvious where the fraud is meant to come from. Trust me, any lady carrying an umbrella on election day will get the end of my pitchfork in a hurry!

melior

>>However, if it was the right policy to remove Saddam then, it was still the right policy to remove him in 2003.

I agree completely with this reasoning, damn the cost or consequences of how we go about it. Not only that, if it was the right policy for the US to use the CIA to orchestrate a coup to overthrow the democracy in Iran in 1953 and install an Islamic fascist regime, it's the right thing for us to do in 2005.

wasted potential

Phoenician - this may be considered strange, but I actually do not view my views on abortion as part of my religious faith, anymore than believing murder is wrong as a core tenet of my faith.

This whole conversation proves what I have said a couple of times on other comment areas on this blog - the secularists and leftists in America and Europe fear the Evangelical Christian and social conservative as a threat to their way of life more than they fear the Islamic terrorist. This explains the hatred of Bush by the left in this country and the secular democracies in western Europe.

By the way - I like the whole mixed dancing thing, so I made sure that I had that part of my blood oath to the President removed. Enough is enough!

Jeffraham Prestonian

wasted: "Please - the left claiming voter fraud is just outrageous! When the NAACP provides crack cocaine to get someone to register Mary Poppins to vote here in Ohio, it is obvious where the fraud is meant to come from."

It's sad to see you toss your obvious intellect aside because you caught the pom-poms yesterday, wasted. You know there's voter fraud going on, on both sides. Just saw this, today:

http://images.dailykos.com/images/user/3/milwaukee.gif

So, please... don't let folks here think that you're another one of those "holier-than-thou" sorts, 'cause that's not how it is. I've not seen a single Kerry supporter do anything buy ridicule or condemn the whole crackhead registration incident. Be bigger than this, please.
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Jeffraham Prestonian

hopeful?: "Zogby calls election for Bush?"

Friends who attended The Daily Show taping today say he actually called it for Kerry. Dunno if it will make it to the air... I guess we'll know if 45 minutes.
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Phoenician in a time of Romans

Melior: "The worst way to avoid an abortion is to not get pregnant by using birth control, because using a condom condemns you to years of hell for everyone of the spermatazoan-Americans that are killed."

Now you're talking rubbish, dude. I mean, face facts. Sperm are too small to carry souls; they must be carried by the ova.

I weep when I see my fellow conservatives referring only to zygotes and blastocysts as babies. Doesn't exactly the same potential to become a child exist in sperm and ova BEFORE they merge? Why not equal rights for gametes?

If abortion is murdering a baby, it logically follows that allowing a woman to complete a menstrual cycle without doing getting pregnant (or at least doing her best to get pregnant) is equally murdering a baby. Imagine the face of the beautiful child that would have come into the world if she hadn't ruthlessly refused to have unprotected sex whenever possible.

I'm sure that as they consider it, any true conservative, any real Christian here who rails against abortion will also agree that women should be kept pregnant as often as humanly possible, and that both men and women have a moral duty to keep women impregnated.

Anything less is murder.

wasted potential

Phoenician - Everybody knows leftists have no sense of humour.

Not true - you all have made some of the most humorous statements tonight I have read in a while.

Fast forward to Tuesday night - Newsflash: Election in Ohio goes to Bush, decided by one vote, Democrats cry foul! After Bush's win in Ohio, reports of a torch carrying, pitchfork waving poll watcher in Ohio chasing a poor looking woman flying away with an umbrella in her hand have the democrats repeating charges of voter intimidation.

Good to be in Bush country in the buckeye state.

melior

Evangelical Christian fundamentalist born-again Bible-thumping Americans are the lifeblood of mainstream America, and there is no reason for socialist lefty hippies to fear them. It's just an urban myth that they want to abolish separation of church and state, or pack the Supreme Court with knuckle-dragging prohibitionists, or pass laws to invade people's bedrooms and tell them what goes in what hole.

Scary brown Islamics in distant oil-rich countries are the real threat, and I'm proud to have a President who takes their campaign contributions before they spend all that money killing us here in my hometown.

Phoenician in a time of Romans

Wasted Potential: "This whole conversation proves what I have said a couple of times on other comment areas on this blog - the secularists and leftists in America and Europe fear the Evangelical Christian and social conservative as a threat to their way of life more than they fear the Islamic terrorist."

I totally agree with you, WP. If those liberals and leftists would just face up to facts, they'd agree it will be considerably worse for fundamentalist Muslims to seize control of the legislative and judicial branches and impose their morality on all of us than for fundamentalist Christians to do so. After all, Christianity is the only real religion, and people should be HAPPY to have its tenets written into secular law and enforced on everyone, Christian or not.

It's for their own good. Really.

wasted potential

Jeffraham - thank you for the plug - I appreciate your sentiments. I just want to point out that as a Republican, I genuinely fear that fraudulent voting will be rampid on election night. The reason I fear this is that it has been done so well in Chicago for so long, that it will be exported by the Bush haters to try and win the election. Anecdotal reports in Ohio, seem to confirm this. We have like 5 counties in Ohio with more people registered to vote than voting age adults. Now, both sides could have worked to do this, I agree.

Anyway - this whole deal shows us one thing ... people are pretty polarized and have taken to caricaturizing the other side into nice, neat molds. Unfortunately, most people on both sides do not fit into those extremist molds we all like to paint while making our points. I must confess I am guilty as well.

melior

Phoenician,

I've wondered similar heretical thoughts:

Wouldn't it be easier for all the priests to get together and bless all the oceans in one big go, so that all the H2O on the planet would be Holy Water?

And if it is God's divine will that some babies be born with only water where their brains should be, or missing some digestive enzyme so they slowly and painfully dissolve in their own juices before they're 3 months old, what are those heretical doctors doing fighting against Him?

Jeffraham Prestonian

wasted: "I guess that I disagree with your stating they are being liberated at gun point. I am trying to follow this argument, but I think you are saying that they followed after Saddam with their hearts and only agreed to be freed from him at gunpoint?"

Look at it this way: If the French had decided to come here in 1775, to help liberate the colonies from Mother England, and they ended up killing a bunch of folks, even unintentionally, just trying to live their lives here in the "new world," don't you think there'd have been colonials kicking some serious French butt? Wouldn't they have said, "Gee, the King's out of the picture now, but these Frenchies keep hangin' out here, rousting people out of bed and taking them away in the middle of the night. I wonder why they're sticking around? Let's get the guns."

Yeah, I think they would have said exactly that.
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Spider Jerusalem

A gift for you all. Just in time for Halloween.

http://www.thestranger.com/current/special.html

Jeffraham Prestonian

wasted: " I just want to point out that as a Republican, I genuinely fear that fraudulent voting will be rampid on election night."

As an *American*, I fear rampant voter fraud, too. I think it's a travesty that four years after the 2000 debacle, we DON'T have a system like TruVote in place (hard to explain the system, and their site seems down right now; the inventor was from Nashville, and was killed in an auto accident about a year ago; I'll try to describe or find a description of it for y'all, though).

Now I know you'll think I'm demonizing the GOP, but the Congress has been in their control. HAVA is about useless, but anything with teeth kept being voted down by the majority. Why anyone of either party would obstruct legislation to insure a modern, verifiable way to conduct our elections, I cannot say, but the congressional voting records tell the tale.
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Ronald Reagan

Just watching Aaron Brown interviewing David Kay. I know we're all caught up in the political consequences of AlQaqaa, but the strategic importance for the military conflict may be much more important than whether this issue can budge the poll numbers a point or two in one direction or another. Commenting on the ABC pictures, Kay made the point the troops were really not prepared to handle a facility of this kind. After the 101st Airborne left the bunker, the IAEA seal had been broken and the facility was not secured. Kay conjectured that this was likely not an isolated incident, and Iraq -- a vast repositary for conventional weapons -- is now awash conventional weapons that are arming the insurgents. He suggested that the troop strength was just not there to lock down the huge quantity of weapons and munitions that were known to be there.

If this is true, this seems to be a very compelling criticism of the Rumsfeld plan to go in fast in and light, and of the Cheney/Chalabi/Wolfowitz contention that the US forces would face little resistance.

There needed to be a plan for these weapons (not just at AlQaqaa but at the many other weapons sites too), and there appears to be none. Its just very hard for me to see any other way around this conclusion.

Henry Schlatman

What I can't figure out is why the order was not issued to blow Al QaQaa.

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