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Mr. Nationalist

Stolen Honor is now available for free. Windows Media (broadband or dialup) and RealPlayer.

Again, this is free.

http://www.stolenhonor.com

RocketPunch

Hey Cool! I've been dying to watch some good fiction! :) Has anyone supplied solid proof on a single claim from the Swift Boat guys? I can tell you the average American is sick of it.

For balance - http://www.thekerrymovie.com/ Unlike the Swift Boat propaganda, this movie makes no attempt to attack anyone. It is just a good snapshot of a time in our history.

forgainst

Hawaii is beautiful ... especially this time of year ... and I am becoming fond of New Jersey ... Aloha ... time to go work out ... a brisk two mile run to start the day ...

robert conrad

Rocket Punch.

The proof is in Kerry's testimony before the Senate in 1971, in his other anti-war activities of the period, in his Dick Cavitt appearance, in his two trips to see the North Vietnamese and Viet Cong representatives in Paris, and in his many repeated war crimes allegations from that period. That conduct is unforgiveable.

You may not have any interest in military matters, or be old enough to remember Vietnam, but let me tell you:

this guy is a treacherous opportunist, and contributed mightily to the substantial suffering of vietnam vets when they returned from the war.

go ahead and poll the vets. see how they intend to vote. I'll bet it's 80-20 Bush.

Jeffraham Prestonian

Mr. Nationalist: "I also see that some terrorist group has a video they claim is some of the missing munitions."

Yes, the shadowy group, known as "KSTP News Channel 5" is believed to be based in Minneapolis, MN, and is known to associate with terrorists such as Al Franken. How they were able to infiltrate the 101st Airborne in late April, and videotape thousands of pounds of explosives that were certainly not there, remains a mystery.
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Bruno Cappaletti

I second robert's point and ad this:

There is no genuine dispute that Kerry lied repeatedly for political purposes about his presence in Vietnam. Read the congressional record, for heaven's sake. Nor is there any genuine dispute that he got his first purple heart for a self inflicted wound, and gamed the system to get it. Nor is there any reasonable dispute that more than 90% of the men that served with him now stand against him.

you can rationalize and ignore this stuff if you want, but it's there nonetheless.

Mr. Nationalist

Rocketpunch -

The views expressed in the Stolen Honor video are consistent with the views of most Vietnam Vets I've known since 1983.

RocketPunch

robert conrad - Insulting my potential age doesn't make up for the fact that you have yet to defend yourself on any issue. The facts are on Kerry's side. You have distortion and opinion. Everything from Vietnam to Kerry's defense record - you can throw out words all you want but they are nothing but words.

forgainst

And although I was never a big red sox fan I am also becoming fond of Mr. Schilling ... I wonder if he has ever bee to Hawaii ...

RocketPunch

Mr. Nationalist - they aren't even consistent with people who are/were part of Swift Boat Vets. Some of the people in that group supported Kerry in the 90's and stumped for him and his Vietnam bravery. But ... this is a hideous subject to bring up. It has come and gone and there are real problems to deal with today. I want to be fair. I have researched the Swift Boat claims but I have NOT watched Stolen Honor. I don't want to be a hypocrite by assuming it's claims.

Elijah

I would love for a Bush supporter to explain this to me. So far you are all ignoring it. I am fascinated by it!!

Giuliani on the Today Show:

The actual responsibility for it really would be for the troops that were there. Did they search carefully enough? Didn't they search carefully enough?

Ronald Reagan

Throughout his life Kerry has acted on principle to speak up for working people. This is what he did in combat in Vietnam, this is why he had the incredible courage to speak otu against the war after returning, this is why he worked with McCain on the POW MIA issue, its why he supports raising the minimum wage, expanding health care coverage and so on.

Standing up for ordinarypeople whether they are soliders or workers has been an utterly consistent and a lifelong project.

Kerry is always cast by Republicans as indecisive but I have a much better idea of what he stands for, who he stands for, than George Bush.

RocketPunch

I think there is something else that should be pointed out here.

STOLEN HONOR is an attack on a man that, from what I can see so far, has an intention of making you afraid of Kerry as a leader. It wants to motivate the viewer to dislike the man.

GOING UPRIVER is a moving piece showcasing the hardship of War an the importance of the American spirit to stand up and make the world a better place.

These movies really are a reflection of the two parties right now. One is angry and full of blame. The other is uplifting and offering hope.

forgainst

Elijah- I can only speak for myself, while I have been posting here for several days I have not made any comments about this whole issue, not because it is not important, but because, in my opinion, we are all jumping to conclusions in partisan lunacy before we really know the truth. While you would probably describe me as an arch conservative, I have not "bashed" Kerry about this regarding the whole "denigrating the troops" deal. Because at the end of the day, it does matter what the troops on the ground do. Rather than grabbing at any little piece of info that backs our position (and that info seems to change hourly) maybe we all ought to wait until things are a little more clear. Theere are plenty of other issues to discuss.

Elijah

Wow ---- the republicans are really quiet today. I think that in their hearts they know Bush has caused many problems. Take any day of the week and there are countless things going on around the world that aren't good for the people and Bush's name is involved in just about all of it. It has to be difficult to work so hard everyday to make a bad situation look good. The War, the ecomony, unemployment, health care, environment. You name it. Sure, they have lots of help, but it has to take its toll.

wasted potential

I can't speak for the other Republicans, but I for one am at work and just peaked in to see what the latest noise was coming from the left.

Oh well, enjoy your next 5 days holed up with your computers envisioning a democratic vitory. Next week, you can revert back to wondering what went wrong, accusations of mass voter fraud and disenfranchisement and waiting for the next great democratic hope.

Gotta go and work for the man some more. Go Bush!

Elijah

forgainst :: it really is an important issue because it is a major part of our big complaint about Bush. Mistakes keep happening from WMD to flowers and sweets to oil paying for the rebuild. What many have pointed out already here this morning, the problem comes in the "mystery" as the White House says. They don't know and that is disturbing.

I appreciate your lack of bashing. I don't mean to say that all republicans have the same attitude. I have enjoyed reading and discussing topics with many bright republicans on this board.

Elijah

wasted potential :: Work. I remember having loads of work under the Clinton Ecomony. Now it is just me, monster.com and my fading unemployment check. I'm about to help the unemployment numbers go down some more because, like many Americans, it's about to run out and I will no longer be counted as unemployed in the system.

forgainst

Elijah-I still disagree on that issue ... but I appreciate you responding to me in a reasonable manner ... gotta go workout ... put off my run too long ... Aloha ...

wasted potential

Elijah - what kind of work do you do and what region of the country are you from?

Jeffraham Prestonian

wasted: "Oh well, enjoy your next 5 days holed up with your computers envisioning a democratic vitory."

Man, did you win the auction at the rally yesterday? The one for Bush's Andover pom-poms? :)
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Elijah

wasted :: retail management in Florida. It has been pretty tough around here. Consumer confidence has been declining. Entire malls have shut down and wages have dropped. I'm looking to get work at one of the theme parks now. They pay horribly but they are one of the few places left that offer decent insurance.

wasted potential

Jeffraham - no pom poms, just looking at the electoral map. For Bush, the race comes down to this OH and FL. If he wins those 2 states, there is no electoral map by which he can lose. The evidence is growing that this is going to happen.

The Cuban Americans (who view Kerry as a communist sympathizer do to his leftist positions) have another reason to vote - one of them is running for the Senate. Add in the Christian conservatives and Bush's base will be there. If you look at 2002 all the pundits and pollsters predicted that Jeb Bush was in for the fight of his life, probably doomed to lose due to this voter "outrage." Jeb won by double digits. Bush will win by whole lot more than 537 votes this go round.

In Ohio, Issue 1 (amendment to the state constitution to ban the recognition of gay marriage) is bringing out the socially conservative voters in a way that will be unparallelled in previuos elections. Also, the Bush supporters are very engaged and ready to work. I was amazed at the infrastructure the Republicans in Ohio have put together for GOTV.

Yes, Karl Rove is a genius - a Cuban American on the Florida senate ticket and a gay marriage amendment ban on the ballot in Ohio.

Go Bush!

wasted potential

Elijah - sorry to hear about the retail problems where you live. I know when I used to go and visit my in laws in Sebring, there was a strip mall on every corner for the retirement community to shop in that neck of the woods and I asked my father-in-law how they kept all of those things going. His answer was - "Us codgers don't have anything better to do than spend money and eat out."

Hope things get better for you!

Jeffraham Prestonian

wasted -- Did the really make you sign something before you could attend the rally? Surely, these loyalty oath stories I keep hearing aren't true...
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