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OhioforBush

RP - You couldn't have read Kerrys whole record. It hasn't been released.

RocketPunch

Wasted Potential - Do you like any Generals supporting Kerry or are all their opinions now invalid to you?

wasted potential

TV Watcher - don't be so hard on Kerry and those who follow him. You know, this is a complicated thing, remembering what you said and having to change your mind all the time. It takes a lot of courage to not know what you really believe on an issue.

How dare we accuse him of being politically opportunistic, a flip flopper or not having any core values!

What is interesting is with all of the changing of positions - Kerry actually maintains he has had the same position all along! And now the leftists are saying Bush has to be removed for not admitting to his mistakes.

Kerry lies gratuitously. He tells an interviewer the $87 billion thing (you know for before you vote against) was due to him being so tired during a night time rally. It took place at 1300. He says he was the infamous Buckner World Series game. He has been proven to be somewhere else. He says he has met with the entire UN Security Council. He met with a few countries, not the entire council.

Point is, if he is willing to lie about small issues like these, where there is no need, and willing to change his positions with the political winds, while saying he has had the same position, how will any of us know what he will or will not do, even if he says he has already done it?

wasted potential

I can respect that some generals prefer a different candidate, but come on, Wes Clark? The guy ran for the nomination as a democrat and openly supported Michael Moore and propagated the whole AWOL thing on national television. He is hardly an objective source.

RocketPunch

OhioforBush - Even if I agreed with you that he hasn't released everything what would be your point? Do you believe what is available in his released records somehow invalid?

Check them out.
http://www.johnkerry.com/about/john_kerry/military_records.html

Rove is good. Attack a man's strength so he can't use it.

Jeffraham Prestonian

wasted: "I can respect that some generals prefer a different candidate, but come on, Wes Clark? The guy ran for the nomination as a democrat and openly supported Michael Moore and propagated the whole AWOL thing on national television."

Um, no.

See, you support Bush -- Bush does not support YOU.

Michael Moore supported Wes Clark -- Clark didn't support Moore. Clark wouldn't even say he agreed with Moore's "deserter" comment.
.

wasted potential

I watched the debate which was moderated by Brit Hume and he did not refute Michael Moore's endoresement, nor did he say it was wreckless to call Bush a deserter. He smiled and said he was glad to have Michael Moore as a supporter and he couldn't say for sure Bush wasn't a deserter.

wasted potential

Jeffraham - are you serious about the loyalty oath thing? To answer your question, no, I did not sign anything. I waited in line for a ticked, showed my driver's license and got 2 tickets.

By the way, it is now reported - 15,000 at the rally, 4000 outside the rally listening on loudspeakers that couldn't get in. Not bad for a county that had 30,000 total voters in 2000.

Of course, we outnumber the democrats 3 to 1 here or so. We have only one elected democrat elected to the city council, other than that all, local, state and federal officials are Republican.

And guess what, we have one of the lowest unemployment figures in the state, one of the lowest crime rates in the state, several businesses coming here to open up factories and distribution centers, etc... Many of the factories coming here are "insourcing" plants from Japanese firms who do business with Honda. In addition, we have Cooper Tire, Whirlpool, Marathon Oil and Ball Metal plants who have been here for years and they have been adding workers! This of course has led to an explosion in our retail market - we actually have a mall in a town of 40,000 people. My wife works at one of the department stores and our store actually competes for sales with stores in much larger communities. Consumers drive to our nice little town from miles around to shop and eat because it is a nice place.

This is all possible because our local government entices these companies to come here and stay through our tax policies towards corporations. The problem is, many communities controlled by the democrats have not been proactive towards business while the times have been changing, meaning that when factories or plants close, they are not able to replace those jobs. Not all of the jobs lost in Ohio moved overseas - several of them moved south to communities willing to work with companies. This explains the census numbers shift in recent years from the midwest to the south. These communities (controlled primarily by Republicans) are doing a much better job for their constituents than the mostly union-controlled democratic communities.

It is good to be in Bush country!

Jeffraham Prestonian

wasted: "I watched the debate which was moderated by Brit Hume and he did not refute Michael Moore's endoresement, nor did he say it was wreckless to call Bush a deserter. He smiled and said he was glad to have Michael Moore as a supporter and he couldn't say for sure Bush wasn't a deserter."

That seems consistent with the facts as we know them, today.
.

RocketPunch

Open question - and I ask this not to try to make a crack but because I really want to know. Has there been a single mistake in the last 4 years that George W Bush has claimed responsibility for?

Jeffraham Prestonian

namestealer: "Now, you may claim they are all liars and frauds if you want, but I'll bet you don't really believe that, and I'll bet you wouldn't do that to them in person."

No, I don't think they're all liars and frauds. Many of them truly believe what they're saying about Kerry's actions having harmed them (just as many gun control advocates truly believe that firarms manufacturers and dealers are partly responsible for gun violence). Believing doesn't make it the truth, though.

There are several of the Swifties that stood up and endorsed Kerry in his last run for the Senate, or have attested in documentation to the version of events in Vietnam that Kerry asserts is accurate, though. At least one Swifty was surprised to learn that his name was being associated with the 527 group, when he didn't IN ANY WAY support their version(s) of events.
.

wasted potential

Bush served in the guard (according to the records) for 6 years. Kerry served for 4 months. Bush remained stateside, Kerry was in Vietnam. Bush himself has stated Kerry's service was more honorable because he saw combat and was wounded. Those are the facts.

Every attempt to say Bush was a deserter has proven to be a hoax or trumped up or whatever. My take on the Swifties is that they are really upset with him over his testimony before the Senate. The rest of this stuff about his service in Vietnam comes back to that noise thing. It cancels each other out, but hurts Kerry in that it removed from him what he was planning to make his most electable trait at the convention - his service in Vietnam.

Their ad with his voice saying those things was their most potent. The rest of it doesn't seem to be as effective.

OhioforBush

RP
Sorry, if he won't release all his records he has something to hide. Bush was man enough to release his.

Jeffraham Prestonian

wasted: "Kerry served for 4 months."

I think you need to check your facts on that one.
.

Jeffraham Prestonian

OHforBush: "Sorry, if he won't release all his records he has something to hide. Bush was man enough to release his."

Which is, of course, why every few months, Scott McClellan has to say about newly-discovered documents, "this is the complete record." Makes sense in Bushland!
.

RocketPunch

OhioforBush - ummmm ... then what is Bush's excuse and PLEASE don't try to tell me that Bush released all his Military records. They still trickle out, page by page, on a Friday night now and again. First they are were destroyed in a fire. A little pressure from the media - Woops, here are a few more. In 2000 they are clean and easy to read. In 2004 there is black marker all over the place. It's amazing you would even invite the comparison.

I don't really want to get into this because I don't care about Bush's military record - but why didn't he show up for his physical? Did you know he wouldn't take a physical again this year?? It is the first time, that I know of, that a President turned down his yearly physical.

OhioforBush

And I don't care about his physical. He signed off on his form 180 (or whatever the release is called) WITH A LITTLE PRESSURE FROM THE MEDIA.
Why hasn't Kerry? And more importantly, why hasn't the media pressured HIM?

OhioforBush

Two polls available to participate in:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6092749/…

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/09/08/polit...…

RocketPunch

OhioforBush - you really want to go back and forth on this like children? As for the pressure - The lack of content in Bush's records keep him from explaining his time in Alabama. To my knowledge, not a single person has come forth and claimed they served with Bush. I know there were plenty of $$$ offers to anyone who can come forward with proof he was there. As for the media with Kerry - what should there be pressure about? I truly don't know. What do you think is hiding in his records? Why is this an issue for you?

RocketPunch

OhioforBush - thanks for posting those links. Bush wasn't fairing so well in those polls, eh?

RocketPunch

ALL - Support your candidate! Take a look a the issues at and vote at

http://www.comparedecidevote.com/

especially helpful for all you undecided. I know there are plenty on this board. ;)

wasted potential

RR/JP,

During my oath ceremony yesterday to pledge blood allegiance to Bush, I was told that we have never, ever made a mistake so it would be impossible to admit to one. I had to swear to that one over the lives of my 3 children, a small price to pay. Oh no! I also swore complete and utter secrecy! The secret service will be here any minute!

The biggest mistake I would say Bush made was actually trusting the CIA and the rest of the world's intelligence services in saying that Saddam had WMD. I mean come on, all he had to do was listen to Al Franken and he could have known the truth. Its not like Bill Clinton ever thought he had WMD during his administration. John Kerry was wisely very skeptical of this threat, at least at one point in the last 3 years.

Seriously now, If Bush came out and said - oops! we made a mistake! or I claim responsibility for that mistake - the media would eat him alive! They are already have blamed him (and Karl Rove) for everything bad that has happened the last 4 years and then some.

RocketPunch

wasted - Man, I knew the blood oath thing was true!!

Seriosly, It's not healthy. The media didn't jump on Kennedy for the Bay of Pigs. They didn't get all over Clinton when he thought he made a mistake in relaxing laws that allowed media to expand. I thought you were really going point out a mistake you believe the President has made. I think it is important for all of us to be able to do it.

Here, I'll give you one. I think it is a mistake for a President to have the authority to go to war. I believe it should go through the checks and balances we have created in the system. John Kerry voted to give the President that authority and I disagree with his choice.

Your turn.

wasted potential

Here's a a few mistakes I believe he made.

(1) He believed that if he actually did what he said he was going to do in 2000 (prescription drugs for Medicare, lower taxes, No Child Left Behind, pushing for funding of Faith based programs to help the poor and needy) that he would get credit for following through on what he said he would do. He was wrong.

(2) Spending like a democrat on domestic issues. He hoped democrats would support him as a result - wrong!

(3) Not taking on illegal immigration hard enough, especially after 9/11. He hoped it would help him with Latino voters, yet to be seen.

(4) Signing McCain-Feingold into law - talk about a worthless piece of legislation. I am sure glad we got all of those nasty ads from outside groups off the air this year!

I have more, but those are a few.

Phoenician in a time of Romans

Tucker: "John Kerry's flailing and now failing attempts to ride to the White House on a single, weak news story"

And this goes to prove that Bush didn't lie abotu the WMDs, no American soldiers are dying in Iraq, and the country isn't rising against us.

So there, you DemoCRAPS! Vote Bush! Four More years! Four More Wars^H^H^H^HYears!

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