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How do you feel the experiment is going so far?

Personally, I have been gathering an incredible about of data for my research on the anti-intellectualism of the typical Bush supporter.

Robb McBurney

Looks good Tucker!!!!! Keep up the good work!!!!!

Michele smith

all you Bush supporters are fearful idiots and foolish


Michele - they are just mislead and uninformed. It isn't right to insult them. That is what they do to us. We just need to act.

When I was old enough to vote Clinton was running for office. The media had everyone on edge believing things were neck and neck. But young people like me came out of the woodwork and voted Clinton into the White House. What is happening now is just like that - multiplied by 1000.

Watch this ...



Michele and "fearful idiots".

Very intelligent post!

That one is sure to influence many that have a chance to read it and "ponder" the depth and breadth of the statement.

I think that it is sad to see the radical left slowly degenerate to simpleton name calling and hate filled speech.

It really indicates to me the "dumbing down" of this group.

Has anyone else seen the poll numbers on young people?

I can say from personal experience (I have two teenage sons) that this age group appears to be abandoning the liberal left.

I think the left is beginning to feel this change and is acting out in desperation, trying to fight the trend.

bill Rutherford

> Subject: Those who served
> This came my way, and I thought it interesting and am passing it on.
Kind of odd to see the stats all at once. >
> > >
> > >>
This could be the last election where military service in
Vietnam has any political currency. But just for the
record, it's worth noting who really served among the
heavyweights in each of the major political parties. There are some surprises here. Did you know John Kerry received three purple hearts? Just kidding. But here's the list. Be sure to check out the bottom of the list...where the
people who spend their time jabbering about military service (the TV pundits) have their military credentials exposed.


Richard Gephardt: Air National Guard, 1965-71. David Bonior: Staff Sgt., Air Force 1969 Tom Daschle: 1st Lt., Air Force SAC 1969-72.
Al Gore: enlisted Aug. 1969; sent to Vietnam Jan. 1971 as an army journalist in 20th Engineer Brigade.
Bob Kerrey: Lt. j.g. Navy 1966-69; Medal of Honor, Vietnam.
Daniel Inouye: Army 1943-'47; Medal of Honor, WWII.
John Kerry: Lt., Navy 1966-70; Silver Star, Bronze Star with Combat V Purple Hearts.
John Edwards: did not serve.
Charles Rangel: Staff Sgt., Army 1948-52; Bronze Star, Korea. Max Cleland: Captain, Army 1965-68; Silver Star & Bronze Star, Vietnam.
Ted Kennedy: Army, 1951-1953.
Tom Harkin: Lt., Navy, 1962-67; NavalReserve, 1968-74.
Jack Reed: Army Ranger, 1971-1979; Captain, Army Reserve 1979-91.
Fritz Hollings: Army officer in WWII,receiving the Bronze Star and seven campaign ribbons.
Leonard Boswell: Lt. Col., Army 1956-76; Vietnam, DFCs, Bronze Stars, and Soldier's Medal. Pete Peterson: Air Force Captain, POW. Purple Heart, Silver Star and Legion of Merit.
Mike Thompson: Staff sergeant, 173rd Airborne, Purple Heart.
Bill McBride: Candidate for Fla. Governor. Marine in Vietnam; Bronze Star with Combat V.
Gray Davis: Army Captain in Vietnam, Bronze Star.
Pete Stark: Air Force 1955-57
Chuck Robb: Vietnam Howell Heflin: Silver Star
George McGovern: Silver Star & DFC during WWII. Bill Clinton: Did not serve. Student deferments.
Entered draft but received 311.
Jimmy Carter: Seven years in the Navy. Walter Mondale: Army 1951-1953
John Glenn: WWII and Korea; six DFCs and Air Medal with 18 Clusters.
Tom Lantos: Served in Hungarian underground in WWII.Saved by Raoul Wallenberg.
Wesley Clark: U.S. Army, 1966-2000, West Point, Vietnam, Purple Heart, Silver Star. Retired 4-star general.
John Dingell: WWII vet
John Conyers: Army 1950-57, Korea


Dennis Hastert: did not serve Tom Delay: did not serve.
House Whiip Roy Blunt: did not serve.
Bill Frist: did not serve.
Rudy Giuliani: did not serve.
George Pataki: did not serve.
Mitch McConnell: did not serve.
Rick Santorum: did not serve.
Trent Lott: did not serve.
Dick Cheney: did not serve. Several deferments, the last by marriage.
John Ashcroft: did not serve. Seven deferments to teach business.
Jeb Bush: did not serve.
Karl Rove: did not serve.
Saxby Chambliss: did not serve. "Bad knee." The man who attacked Max Cleland's patriotism.
Paul Wolfowitz: did not serve Vin Weber: did not serve.
Richard Perle: did not serve.
Douglas Feith: did not serve.
Eliot Abrams: did not serve.
Richard Shelby: did not serve.
Jon Kyl: did not serve Tim Hutchison: did not serve.
Christopher Cox: did not serve.
Newt Gingrich: did not serve.
Don Rumsfeld: served in Navy (1954-57) as aviator and flight instructor.
George W. Bush: six-year Nat'l Guard commitment (incomplete).
Ronald Reagan: due to poor eyesight, served in a non-combat role making movies.
Gerald Ford: Navy, WWII
Phil Gramm: did not serve.
John McCain: Silver Star, Bronze Star, Legion of Merit, Purple Heart and Distinguished Flying Cross. Bob Dole: an honorable veteran of WWII, wounded and (lost use of right arm).
Chuck Hagel: two Purple Hearts and a Bronze Star, Vietnam.
Jeff Sessions: Army Reserves, 1973-1986
JC Watts: did not serve.
Lindsey Graham: National Guard lawyer.
G.H.W. Bush: Pilot in WWII. Shot down by the Japanese. Tom Ridge: Bronze Star for Valor in Vietnam.
Antonin Scalia: did not serve.
Clarence Thomas: did not serve

Pundits and Preachers

Sean Hannity: did not serve.
Rush Limbaugh: did not serve (4-F with a 'pilonidal cyst.')

Bill O'Reilly: did not serve.
Michael Savage: did not serve.
George Will: did not serve.
Chris Matthews: did not serve.
Paul Gigot: did not serve.
Bill Bennett: did not serve.
Pat Buchanan: did notserve. Bill Kristol: did not serve.
Kenneth Starr: did not serve.
Michael Medved: did not serve.

Please pass this on to members of your address book...so we can all
contemplate who has the right and the knowledge and the experience to
lead us into war...and who has not!


RocketPunch and Michele, will you please tell me what John Kerry has said that you believe? I'm not being a smarta**, really, I'd like to know. Since I don't personally know a single liberal Democrat who is voting for Kerry, I don't have anyone who can tell me.

I've tried listening to him (Kerry) and he talks in circles and constantly contradicts himself so I don't know what to believe that he believes - that's why I'd like to hear what you've heard. I'd also like to know why you've chosen to believe what you believe because as far as I can tell there isn't a position Kerry's taken that he hasn't also taken an opposing position.

With all due respect to eminem and all the other "Rock the Vote" folks, I don't think they made it because of something the government "gave" them. In my 38 years of life, I've yet to see anyone "helped" by government handouts rise above where they were originally. If it's about the war, well, I'm pretty personally connected there and the media is completely wrong on Iraq - so you're going to have to give me a pretty strong argument (other than John Kerry isn't George Bush and rock stars don't like the current president) to convince me to change my vote.


Don't be so quick to judge Jaybo. You might want to look at debate techniques from your own party before you accuse liberals of name calling. I believe you have us beat in a landslide.

First the kids vote.


This poll has been accurate in the last 4 elections. Mostly because children tend to support who their parents support.

As for the 18 to 30 vote - they are expecting over 20 million this year but I would guess it will be much higher. In a poll released Thursday, Harvard University’s Institute of Politics found that college students favor Kerry 52-39 percent over President Bush.


Virginia - I would be happy to discuss any issue as there are so very many. The War, if you like. The Economy is a good one. I am particularly interested in the Environment and a current lean in this administration towards Corporatism.

It is easy to point out problems with Bush but I assure you I am voting for Kerry because I believe he will do a better job. The facts I have collected lead me to that obvious conclusion and I think if you read some of the other threads you will see many Democrats making strong cases on many issues.

So, I ask you. Give me a topic and I will give you my BUSH and KERRY on the subject.

As for the Eminem video - to us it is just a video. To youth it is potential for an awareness of politics and the world around them. I would hope they will see a video like that and explore on their own.


And what will you do if you're wrong, RocketPunch? There are just as many polls showing the opposite of what you're saying whether you want to admit it or not. All this poll reading (on both sides) is grasping at straws.

The thing that seems the most unbalanced is the efforts on "your" side to get more votes than there are people and terrify (root word of which is terror) voters by vandalizing campaign headquarters, hiring drug-addicts and criminals to register people, and harassing folks when they attempt to vote.

I just don't think efforts like this will work to John Kerry's favor and pandering to the Christians in their pulpits, spouting off scripted Bible verses, to off-set it isn't going to get him very far. Unless you guys know he's lying from the pulpit and don't believe it either, he may lose votes that way.


You forgot a few.

Abraham Lincoln - did not serve.
Franklin Delano Roosevelt - did not serve.
Bill Clinton - did not serve.
Harry Truman - did not serve.

I suppose that what you meant to imply was that anyone that did not serve in the military has no right to talk about military action.

Why don't you tell that to the historians.

Bush League

Can someone help me explain this? Why did the president come out IN FAVOR OF GAY MARRIAGE today on TV?

I couldn't believe it! My jaw hit the floor!

He basically contradicted the Republican platform of the Defense of Marriage Act.




Oh, by the by libs? The NYT Story that you all hung your hats on? A huge fraud, perpetrated by none other than Mohammed El-Baredai, who wanted his cushy job at the UN kept intact. The letter was a fraud. Put in print by a fraudulent newspaper, the Old Grey Harlot, in the service of a fraudulent candidate, John Kerry.

What do you want to bet that Honest John offered him his job in trade for the fraudulent letter? Hmmm. Wouldn't be the last time the UN was party to a scam.

Oh, speaking of John, let's see how he had his "eye on the ball" in 2001. October of 2001, btw, eighteen months before the fall of Baghdad (full quote from Kerry supporter, if honest Democrat, Mickey Kaus' blog, "Kausfiles")...

Mora Bora: Reader D.P. notes that the Kerry Edwards Web site, responding to Bush's charge of Monday morning quaterbacking on Tora Bora, has posted the following citation to a November 16, 2001 television interview Kerry gave to John McLaughlin:

3) KERRY CALLED FOR MORE BOOTS ON THE GROUND TO GO AFTER BIN LADEN. In an appearance on John McLaughlin's One on One on November 16, 2001, Kerry said that "we need to put some ground people in there in order to do the very things that I've just talked about, and ultimately, to do what we're doing now, which is ... chasing Osama bin Laden and moving the process forward. ... They have moved to the hills, moved to caves, to isolated areas. We have, I think, an extraordinary ability to isolate them there." MR. MCLAUGHLIN: "You're talking air attack." SEN. KERRY: "Not just air attack. No, no. I'm talking about people on the ground, the very people I talked about earlier, the level of engagement here with either rangers or Special Forces…" [John McLaughlin's One on One, 11/16/01]

I'm not sure this does the trick. First, it's a deceptively truncated quote. Kerry is defending his previous criticism of insufficient U.S. boots on the ground--but he gives the impression, at least, that his criticisms have been addressed and he's now satisfied. Here's the complete quote:

MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Well, why did you criticize the administration for failing to put in expeditionary forces earlier?

SEN. KERRY: I didn't criticize them for failing to put expeditionary forces in, John. I said we need to put some ground people in there in order to do the very things that I've just talked about, and ultimately, to do what we're doing now, which is --

MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Well, you are --

SEN. KERRY: -- which is chasing Osama bin Laden and moving the process forward. [Emphasis on deceptively truncated section added]

Second, are "rangers" and "Special Forces" what you would use to block escape routes in a large mountainous area? Don't you need lots of troops for that--hence the need for Afghan proxies? [Update: U.S. Special Forces were in fact used at Tora Bora. But the Christian Science Monitor's account suggests a small number of additional U.S. troops might have been helpful, if not sufficient: "Pir Baksh Bardiwal, the intelligence chief for the Eastern Shura, which controls eastern Afghanistan, says he was astounded that Pentagon planners didn't consider the most obvious exit routes and put down light US infantry to block them."]

Finally, the Kerry camp may regret calling attention to that McLaughlin transcript. Earlier in the interview--which, remember, took place two months after 9/11, in the middle of our Afghan campaign against the Taliban--McLaughlin asks Kerry "What do we have to worry about [in Afghanistan]?" Here's the last part of Kerry's answer:

I have no doubt, I've never had any doubt -- and I've said this publicly -- about our ability to be successful in Afghanistan. We are and we will be. The larger issue, John, is what happens afterwards. How do we now turn attention ultimately to Saddam Hussein? How do we deal with the larger Muslim world? What is our foreign policy going to be to drain the swamp of terrorism on a global basis? [Emphasis added]

Wait--I thought shifting the focus to Saddam was a "diversion" and distraction from the fight against Al Qaeda! Not, apparently, when Kerry saw an opportunity to score political points by advocating it. [But would he have rushed to war in Iraq without a plan to win the peace!-ed. Maybe not. But, given Kerry's recent he-took-his-eye-off-the-ball rhetoric, it's embarrassing that he brought up pivoting to Iraq "now" long before the Afghan campaign was over--indeed, when the Tora Bora battle against bin Laden's men had barely begun.]


Open mouth, insert foot. That's John Kerry for you.

Indeed, we have been trying to tell you poor libs that your candidate is a complete phony for some time now. It seems that Honest John was concerned about Iraq in October, 2001, and said that Saddam had to be addressed. Sounds like a bit of intellectual outsourcing is going on, here.

But of course, I forget that I can't convince you people that your candidate is a cad and a bounder. Why not?, Well, after all, "Bush Is Hitler"......

Be Seeing You,



Virginia - Let's discuss facts. I can post several dozen articles about Republicans suppressing votes but I shouldn't have to. I can go on all day about "mushroom clouds" and false Terror Alert warnings. The psychology geek in me is horribly fascinated by Bush's use of fear to persuade this country and I have studied it for a few years now. But we can go back and forth all day about "Your" side and "My" side. I try not to think about our country like that, though it is hard in these times.

From a voting point of view - the FACTS show that the majority of the new voter registrations are Democrats. In Florida, for example, new registration is up 60% over 2000 for DEM and 12% for REP. These aren't polls. They are facts based on registration.


So what does military service really mean?

As a veteran, I am not convinced that it is the one and only criteria that qualifies one for public office.

Our founding fathers agreed with this and thought it wise to make the Commander-in-Chief a civilian.

My sticking point is the record of the individual as it pertains to the military.

Bill Clinton had a record of "distain" towards the military and we are still trying to recover from that.

John Kerry came home after the Vietnam Conflict to stab his military brothers in the back.


Bush League,
No way. The President never came out in favor of Gay Marriage, did he? You must have misunderstood him. He, like all good Christians, believes that marriage is only between a man and a woman, and that any acceptance of any other combination will leave our nation open to divine punishment.

Please clarify what you heard.


tucker, there's another feature you can enable. It's called the bullshit meeter. With the inane spin you've been offering lately yours would be way off the charts!

Jeffraham Prestonian

section9 -- Like I said, Scott McClellan will be out shortly to tell us that the troops who tested the HMX & RDX were planted by Richard Clarke, Joe Wilson and Paul O'Neill, and the field commander who called SOCOM to request demolition of the site was actually Osama bin Laden, playing a little joke. Scotty already tried once to foist this on the new Iraqi "government," for something that happened 18 months ago. Yes, the consistency is truly stunning.



I would like to see all these articles that you imply are out there that you could post.

I challenge you to come up with five.


RocketPunch - You say Kerry will do a "better job" - my point is he hasn't said how in a way that doesn't contradict his votes or something else he's said, so my original question remains. Why do you believe what you believe when he's contradicted what he says he believes?

It appears we have very differing "opinions" (not a bad thing) and because of that, neither of us will be convinced to change. The difference is I agree with George Bush's policies and know that he will do what he's said. Even if I agreed with Kerry, I would not have that confidence.

As for the war, I'm military and already have an established viewpoint that is completely contradictory to Kerry. As for the economy, I firmly believe an ownership mentality needs to be cultivated in this country. I'm a fiscal conservative but understand it costs money to make the changes necessary to move this country forward. I don't believe in raising taxes on the rich - it's their money. I don't believe in pandering to the poor just to get their votes. Personally, I think if the Johns cared about the poor so much, they'd share a little of their own wealth instead of avoiding paying their share of the current taxes on the rich and ultra-rich (but that's my personal opinion.)

I'm not changing you and you're not changing me, but at least I'm 100% confident my guy will do what he says.

Bush League

WASHINGTON, Oct. 25 - Bush said in an interview this past weekend that he disagreed with the Republican Party platform opposing civil unions of same-sex couples and that the matter should be left up to the states.

Mr. Bush has previously said that states should be permitted to allow same-sex unions, even though White House officials have said he would not have endorsed such unions as governor of Texas. But Mr. Bush has never before made a point of so publicly disagreeing with his party's official position on the issue.


WTF? Bush want to legalize gay marriage?

No way in hell Bush is a gay lover.


Jaybo - Bush now says he supports Civil Unions, giving Gay people all the rights of a married couple. However, he still does not support Gay Marriage.


jaybo - certainly but what subject are you referring to?





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