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T. Kosciusko

Our Leader had other priorities, like finding the flowers and sweets.

wasted potential

Rocket Punch - "Almost everyone I know has to work two jobs to pay the bills. I certainly haven't seen this tax cut you keep mentioning."

Is this what you call the bubble theory?

Jeffraham Prestonian

T. Kosciusko: "Our Leader had other priorities, like finding the flowers and sweets."

There were statues and murals to destroy in Baghdad.
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Rob

There's a perfectly good reason for Kerry to keep hammering Bush on Iraq: Bush's support on that issue among undecideds is eroding. This is mostly due to his own mishandling of the al Qaqaa story, and the searchlight it has thrown on the growing perception that he's managed the entire war badly. The "incompetence" meme seems to be finally getting the attention it has so richly deserved these recent years. Let it run, I'd say. It's overdue.

Check out the latest swing state polls. Bush is sliding.

http://mydd.com/

R.

wasted potential

Jeffraham - so, is the intelligence community going to decide to unload their "bomb" before the end of the week, now that part one of this coordinated effort isn't getting the traction hoped for? Or do you think they just wait until Monday anyway?

I should have known better than to use Carville/Begala/Lockhart, just tyring to poke at you a little.

RocketPunch

T. Kosciusko - How could it be? I acknowledge that people are doing well right now. But the difference with my point of view is that I am looking at others around me and wanting to see change that will help them out. If I lived in my little bubble then I wouldn't worry about it. I am paying the bills.

T. Kosciusko

I think that was the order of Our Leader's priority:

1. Statues and Murals
2. Flowers and Sweets
3. Weapons

wasted potential

Rocket Punch - My only point was that while asserting that I believed the economy was better because I was doing better, you were relying on anecdotal observations from your corner of the country to state it was not.

RocketPunch

Sorry - my reply was for Wasted ... getting sleepy ... so sleepy ...

Jeffraham Prestonian

wasted: "Or do you disagree?"

If I were convinced that article you posted outlined the most accurate unfolding of events, I wouldn't disagree. It mentions 32 tons of HMX being missing, but 377 tons of HMX & RDX are now known to have vanished. The story doesn't obviously fit cleanly into any of the other reputed "official timelines" offered up by the administration, so it makes me wonder -- is the Bushist strategy to attempt to obfuscate and conflate an ever-increasing (and often contradictory) set of details about this, just to make sure no one has a clear picture of what the end effect has been -- 377 tons of stuff that kills our soldiers is missing?
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T. Kosciusko

Oh wait. That was March/April wasn't it?

1. Statues and Murals
2. Flowers and Sweets
3. Easter Eggs
4. Weapons

wasted potential

Rob - As I was told last night "Just keep whistling past the graveyard" and stay in that happy place where Bush is sure to lose.

Jeffraham Prestonian

wasted: "so, is the intelligence community going to decide to unload their "bomb" before the end of the week, now that part one of this coordinated effort isn't getting the traction hoped for? Or do you think they just wait until Monday anyway?"

I don't think they -- the intel folks -- are working on the media's schedule. It's not something they have to do. Media saturation is so fast, I'm still betting on monday, about 1630 ET.
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Rob

Wasted - What will you do when Bush loses? (I'll bet you've already started thinking it through, haven't you? If not, you might want to get cracking...)

wasted potential

Jeffraham - my only point is that there is so much noise out there that the big "damage" that was supposed to come out of this has been effectively muted and will quite possibly turn itself on the NY Times tomorrow and Friday.

As a Republican, I can admit to this. We now have media like the British have. The days of a supposed few impartial news organizations controlling the news are over. Everyone gets their news from whatever outlet they already agree with, or they don't get news at all. Very few "trust" news organizations as truly objective.

So, when these "stories" come out, there is a large part of the population that believes it to be politically motivated before they even know the facts. Then when the rebuttals come out, there is a large part of the population that believes it to be politically motivated before they even know the facts. Also, Bush and Kerry can say whatever they want, true/false, somewhere in between and the same results happen.

This noise effect produces an end result that nullifies the big impact that this type of story used to have. The only way for it to do damage is for a damaging story to run and the accused candidate to admit to the problem. This is not likely to happen.

Jeffraham Prestonian

wasted -- The best take of piecing together the patchwork of facts, contradictions and spin about al Qaqaa I've seen is @

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/week_2004_10_24.php#003824

Here's the end of that article:
--
Late Update: Drudge's 'the Russians did it' story is up now at the Washington Times, all based it seems on the say-so of John A. Shaw, the deputy undersecretary of defense for international technology security, whose theory about Russian involvement even Di Rita seems to be distancing himself from.

Shaw does at least provide the adminsitration's 9th or 10th theory of what happened. It had to have been taken out before the war because the US watched the place so closely no other explanation is possible. "That was such a pivotal location, Number 1, that the mere fact of [special explosives] disappearing was impossible," Shaw told the Times. "And Number 2, if the stuff disappeared, it had to have gone before we got there."

You can't make this stuff up.

Or, I guess, actually you can.

Meanwhile, back on planet Earth, the New York Times talks to some of the folks who looted the place during the early weeks of the occupation.
--
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wasted potential

Rob - what will I do if Bush loses?

First, I really do believe Bush will win, and that is not based on pie in the sky thinking at all. All he has to do is turn out the base in Ohio and Florida and the election is over. The information that I have been hearing here in my home state of Ohio makes me feel very good about our chances here. Remember, Issue 1 in Ohio is to modify our constitution to ban gay marriage. The social conservative voter, already charged up by Bush, is running at full throttle over this. Even some Amish folks are registering to vote for that one!

To your point, if Senator Kerry were to win, my life will go on as normal, knowing that Senator Kerry will be rendered powerless by the Republican Congress to effect any of his "proposals" or plans domestically. Also, he will be forced to follow Bush's plan in Iraq, which he has coopted as his own.

Due to my personal conviction that abortion is legalized murder of the innocent, my largest concern would be that Kerry has committed to using federal tax dollars on abortions again, not only here at home, but also overseas. It pains me to think that the money I earn would go to killing innocent life here and abroad.

wasted potential

Jeffraham - I can post article after article after article about this which says the NY Times story is bunk, you can produce the same volume saying it is good as gold. That just proves the point I was making. The noise drowns out the damage the story was hoped to effect on the President. If found to be untrue like the 60 minutes story, it could have a backlash effect.

This is not a one way street either. Any accusation against Kerry has the same cause effect.

I have an idea - we could start our own news information site and start posting our "articles" all over the web on places like this and democratic places as well. Millions of people would believe whatever we chose to put out, while millions would also start finding articles claiming to debunk whatever we made up. That is how it works now a days.

Your the IT guy, I am in sales/operations, we could make it work!

chris

you are all a bunch of LOSERS!

(except the bush fans)

wasted potential

Jeffraham - I happen to agree that the information coming out about this story is almost getting humorous. The Russians did it, but now ABC says:

ABC: Discrepency Found in Explosive Amounts
ABC News ^

"The information on which the Iraqi Science Ministry based an Oct. 10 memo in which it reported that 377 tons of RDX explosives were missing — presumably stolen due to a lack of security — was based on "declaration" from July 15, 2002. At that time, the Iraqis said there were 141 tons of RDX explosives at the facility. But the confidential IAEA documents obtained by ABC News show that on Jan. 14, 2003, the agency's inspectors recorded that just over 3 tons of RDX was stored at the facility — a considerable discrepancy from what the Iraqis reported."

So, the Russians took just the chemical and biological weapons to Syria, I guess. Wow, this is getting great. Can't wait to see that intel report and the "noise" that comes from that!

wasted potential

Chris - there are a few of us left, but I am dropping off for some sleep. Go Bush!

Jeffraham Prestonian

wasted -- Yeah, I think "noise" is the strategy for the defense. What I continue to wonder is how many undecideds will say, "Man, after 18 months, THIS story has changed HOW MANY times?!? Sounds a lot like the justifications for the war, itself!"
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Jeffraham Prestonian

wasted -- Aw, don't crash just yet. I was seriously hoping to get you to talk about that "loyalty oath" thing. Really -- did they make you sign something before you were allowed to attend?
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Phoenician in a time of Romans

Wasted Potential: "Ron Reagan - Well, I already answered that one last night, but here is my dim-witted, Christian conservative opinion again: We had plenty of troops to win the war and the peace."

And General Eric Shinseki, Army Chief of Staff at the time, who said differently, is nothing but a liberal, a liar, and probably a DemoCRAP.

Don't bother reading this story; the ongoing peace and prosperity in Iraq shows Shinseki had no idea:

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/02/26/1046064103887.html?oneclick=true

never cry wolf

Wasted, you said - "Jeffraham: When I was a kid during the Reagan years, we had deficits and the talk was that my generation would be "paying the bill" for those deficits. I remember there was talk that when I was working, the federal tax rate would be like 60 to 70% just to pay the interest on the debt."

Do you have any idea how much of your taxes goes to pay the interest on ronnie raygun's deficit? Betcha don't have a clue do ya?

24%, the 2nd largest outlay after defense and more than twice as much as entitlement programs for all those poor slackers in the way of food stamps and such.

Nearly a quarter of every dollar you pay in taxes, folks. And what do you get from it? NADA, ZILCH, NOTHING! Just paying off the interest on the credit card.

You mat reacall that Gore wanted to use the unprecedented surplusses Clinton obtained to pay off on the principal of this dept so we were not saddled with all these taxes paying for no benefits. Sounds like a sound fiscal policy to me, no?

Instead, the richest in the land got a windfall, and the rest of us got a higher credit card bill. You know who holds our debt? China, Saudi Arabia, Japan, et al.

My kids and grandkids are gonna be paying off for this jackass their whole lives.

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